New info on B-17G 44-83439/N131P (Update: Crash site photos)

[Chris Brame]

B-17G 44-83439/N131P, the one modified to carry tropical fish, hasn't previously had much info available about its fate.
Today, I was digging through old issues of the Chicago Tribune online, and while searching under "B-17" I found this article from March 25, 1963. Apparently the plane crashed on December 13, 1962 in mountains about 40 miles SE of Santa Marta, Colombia, but wasn't found until March 19, 1963.
From there the plot thickens:

[aerovin2]

Chris,

This is a real find and answers some long asked questions. It would appear the new owners/operators of N131P only had the airplane for a few weeks at most before it was lost. Definitely some more can be dug out on this since this information is now known. Thanks for posting it.

[Chris Brame]

Reading between the lines, it seems like there was substantial wreckage left at the site (not completely burned). I wonder when restorers will start searching out some of these remote Central/South American crash sites for parts.

[wymanmtc]

I have visited this site in Colombia about three weeks ago and have videos, photos, and information located on my web site. http://www.MountainTravelColombia.com

Some information in the Chicago Tribune article is incorrect or fabricated, and it may be that this site was never reached or verified by searchers in 1963. ALL the fuselage and cockpit were badly burned and only small sections of charts and log books survived where other documents were said to have been recovered. The stabilizer, tail section, and BOLTH wings were not burned as stated. The fuselage area where the serial number (32080) would have been located is melted. Only the military numbers were still barley visible under paint on the right hand side of the rear stabilizer. No numbers or N131P were painted on either side of the wings. This aircraft crashed in a very remote and rugged area at an altitude of 3500m, and the time the article stated that the plane was discovered by the Indians, reported to police, searched, serial number recovered, and reported to the Chicago Tribune (6 days) seems very unlikely. A rock tomb with only two sets of remains at the crash site is believed to have been constructed by the Kogui Indians, but the wreckage seems to have never been disturbed! No report of the accident in the ASN database or obituaries of the pilots or other reports of the alleged hijacking that I could find. Many aircraft have crashed in the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta range as it is the highest costal mountain range in the world. Most are caused by pilot error flying into IFR conditions, that are usually present in these mountains in December.

[Chris Brame]

This was just posted over at WIX:
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.o ... 68#p532968
Crash site photos here:
http://www.mountaintravelcolombia.com/g ... rettyPhoto
Looks like some components may be worth recovering?

[aerovin2]

I posted this on the WIX site also, and thought I should include it here too.


Mr. Culbreth,

I am curious about two things. The manufacturer's (Douglas Aircraft) serial number (msn) would have on a dataplate riveted on the bulkhead just aft of the the main fuselage entrance door. Since you report the tail section did not burn, and it appears the main entrance door was quite intact, are you saying that this bulkhead and thus data plate was melted? A bit confused here, as this is the only place the msn appears on the aircraft.

Also, I am curious about where you think the information for the article came from. It seems pretty authoritative with the report of the msn (and not military serial), and why would the reported information be fabricated. Not trying to be argumentative but I've done a bit of research on this aircraft and its mysterious disappearance. The few details directly about the accident that appear incorrect don't seem to change the basic facts of the accident as reported. As for the hijacking theory, I would agree that this was very speculative.

I appreciate you providing so many detailed photos of the wreck site. Sad story, in any event.



By the way, the only photograph I have seen of this airplane in civil service (and included in the second edition of Final Cut, page 40, and the 4th edition, page 237), the airplane has its civil number of N131P painted on the aft fuselage. It appears to be painted overall a light color, perhaps white. It also has an small U.S. flag on the dorsal fin, and a stylized large fish on the middle of the vertical stabilizer about where the military serial would have been painted. From the photos you provided, it would appear all the added paint and markings (presuming there were still on the airplane at the time) have worn away over the half century it has been there. This photo was taken at the Oakland, CA, airport, date unknown but no doubt between October 1959 (when the aircraft was obtained by Paramount Aquariums) and late 1962 (when it was sold shortly before the December 1962 accident).

Again, thank you for posting these photos.

[wymanmtc]

Mr. Thompson,
We looked for the (msn) where you indicated, but it appeared that when the airplane impacted flat on a large rock what didn't break off the fuselage burned, including the support spar for the vertical stabilizer with the number 9 on it, and panels below and forward of the stabilizer. Many parts, wing sections, nose (photo 53), two engines, glass panels, seats, and door were catapulted 100ft down near a stream.
I am also interested as to how the two people mentioned in the article could have reached the crash site by foot as in 1963 the 4WD roads near this area did not exist. we took three mules that that work in this terrain but after reaching 13000ft and days of searching the only route that existed to the site was a difficult foot trail rarely used by the Indians through very rugged terrain.
It is possible that helicopters were used. In 1963 Shell oil had the only three in Colombia (Bell 47Gs) for oil exploration in the Northern part of the country. There is a possible landing site on the South side of the lake but in March winds can be very strong throughout the day.
There are stories from the Kogui Indians as well but not firsthand, that two Indians spotted the wreckage from a trail above on route to another village. after some time it was reported to police, and religious leaders then came up from the village of Don Diego and held ceremonies for 8 days. Lake Uldumindia is one of two of the most important lakes in their lands, and they now consider the wreckage part of the spirit of the lake. They told me that non Indians had never visited the site until recently. There is one of the two Indians still alive in Don Diego and I may be able to get a guide to record what he remembers on video at a festival latter this month as the village is closed to foreigners.
Parts of the wing that were not exposed are painted a crude light blue over white. smaller sections of the fuselage had maybe a red stripe at one time. One engine cowling is dark green (photo 90). some parts landed in a small stream and became corroded. This happened to the port side of the stabilizer, but the starboard side had only numbers no graphics. Surprisingly most parts are not very corroded.
I think the information for the article came from the father who latter became a Chicago judge and died in 1980.
Having had a serial number may have been useful regarding an insurance policy.

It bothered me the most why was this plane flying directly in to the mountains ?
But if they had flown from Panama City loaded to San Juan, Puerto Rico behind the sierra Nevada ( Cartagena, Valledupar) refueled in Maracaibo, then departing San Juan to Panama City the following day empty and not needing to refuel, following a more direct but unfamiliar heading across the Caribbean and along the coast of Colombia to the port city of Santa Marta. Flying at a compass heading directly to Santa Marta with an error of less than 3 degrees East and at a cruising altitude of 12000ft, then encountering a cloud bank in the early afternoon and continuing inland for 32 miles the aircraft may have encountered terrain at 12000ft, banked sharply to the Right, stalled and crashed at a 90 degree angle on the other side of the ridge.
But that's my humble opinion!
you're always welcome to come to Colombia and tour the site with us and see what you think.
Thank you for your interest.