Second pair of eyes

[terveurn]

Working on the G-35-DL for book 4.

Feel I am going nuts with what I am reading on the aircraft cards. Previously there has been a very strong (but acceptable margin) connection between Osborn's B-17 list and the cards, but I am finding huge errors in this series.

I have not been one to criticize any previous authors work - feel that every book once it is in print will have error found as more information become available (even my books I have the oh crap moments as a new document appears).

but something is seriously off.

as an example I am posting osborn's vs the card

42-107067 Del Denver 10/2/44; Gr Island 20/2/44; Grenier 6/3/44; Ass 709BS/447BG Rattlesden 24/3/44;

The card has this ship going to Tulsa Municipal not Denver Municipal

The card has this ship at Grenier AAF on 13 March 1944.

I know where Dave got some his information (using assigned dates vs received dates) but these locations and dates are off (and the entire G-35-Dl series is this way, not just this one card).

42-107067 card.JPG

[cvairwerks]

Any possibility that Denver was so stacked up at that time, that they had some aircraft sent elsewhere to have the work done?

[Dennis56]

I'm just relieved that somebody other than me is up early on Christmas morning and thinking about B-17s. Dennis

[terveurn]

Any possibility that Denver was so stacked up at that time, that they had some aircraft sent elsewhere to have the work done?

The entire G-35-DL series is like this the cards do not correspond to the reference.

The reference has aircraft MIA when they returned to ZOI, wrong cities, wrong dates - almost as if these chapter was farmed out to somebody that did not care and did a cut an past job.

Been doing some update at 8th AF site, but it's a mess as well (since everything is based on the reference)

[cvairwerks]

I'm just relieved that somebody other than me is up early on Christmas morning and thinking about B-17s. Dennis

Was just getting ready to head out for lunch...I work 180 out from the normal world.

[Second Air Force]

Your postings have started me thinking. I live and work in Tulsa (in fact, I've worked in all four hangars that were the Modification facility) but have done next to no research on what work was performed at the Tulsa Mod Center, other than the YB-40 project and various B-24 projects.

Is it possible that Douglas sent airplanes to Tulsa on certain projects since the Mod Center was run by Douglas? B-24 work tapered off after the aircraft plant converted to the A-26 so that may be a reason that Tulsa figured into mods for the B-17.

Just a thought over coffee. I really need to do some research into Douglas Tulsa.

[aerovin2]

My two cents is that you are working off the primary source document and you need not worry about earlier errors. Dave did a great service by putting out what he did but there are numerous errors...does not really matter where they came from. The main thing is that what you are putting together will become the authoritative source for the guys moving forward for the Boeing production.

[terveurn]

My two cents is that you are working off the primary source document and you need not worry about earlier errors. Dave did a great service by putting out what he did but there are numerous errors...does not really matter where they came from. The main thing is that what you are putting together will become the authoritative source for the guys moving forward for the Boeing production.

My concern at this time is am I missing something....

There is such a discrepancy, my thought(s) are is there another source document that I should be referencing.

How can two people, reading the same card (or original source documents), come-up with two totally different readings.

It's not just dates, but locations, crew members in the MACR's - heck, I even have a few ships going to the 8th AF that were only 15th AF.

I like Dave's work; I use it as a foundation (and a reference) to start with, but the G-35-DL's are like building a house on quicksand; they are all over the map and I am questioning my reading of the Douglas cards.

Noticed that nobody mentioned that the Douglas B-17's cards state these ships were built at Santa Monica (when they were actually built at Long Beach).

one last thing, found out that this B-17G-35 might have been the last surviving example (and might still exist today). After she crashed in 1946, she was stripped and sold and used as a shed until the early 1950's. I have run out of leads on her beyond that date

42-107067 HH.JPG

[Chris Brame]

Pardon me while I remove my jaw from the floor .

[Second Air Force]

The use of Santa Monica on the card possibly just indicates the home field or headquarters of Douglas' west coast production.

Quite a photo of the airplane as a toolshed!

[terveurn]

Pardon me while I remove my jaw from the floor .

These books have been a learning experience for me as well.

I pretty much thought I knew 8th AF history, knew the tail markings cam in late (Late summer 44 or mid winter 45) and general order of the campaigns, airfields, etc...

Amazed to find the Cheyenne tails became pretty standard on the G-35-BO (January 44) with OD / G ships.

That the first Bare Metal B-17 was accepted in December 1943 and was in combat February 44.

Learned about the 3rd great B-17 swap (March 44) (as well as the 4th B-17 swap (summer 44)).

Fascinating to find that the luftwaffe was still a very strong adversary well into the Fall of 1944 and only was only supplanted by flak at the same time.

One heck of a advance aviation history course I have been teaching myself.