B-17E fat cat/ little buster upper 94 missions 41-2648

[jmkendall]

Nice article that gives what I believe is not a well known history of this AC.

94 missions before being flown back to US. 586 combat hours. It really makes me think of one of the 'Pacific Tramps" which was noted as having over 1000 combat hours, well over a thousand combat hours. Meaning it could well have had over 200 missions.

Read it here:https://www.newspapers.com/clip/2190377 ... urns_home/

[Chris Brame]

Interesting story (Serial in the heading should be 41-2648; 2468 was lost in Java in January 1942). Baugher has it making a side trip to the RAF??

(41-)2648 delivered Lowry Mar 5, 1942, Assigned to 19th BG in Hawaii May 23, 1942. Participated in Battle of Midway. Transferred to Royal Aircraft Establishment, Farnborough, England Feb 15, 1943 for unspecified trials. Returned to USAAF Mar 9, 1943. To RFC at Walnut Ridge Nov 8, 1946.

Ended up at Walnut Ridge later than many. Wonder where it served between '43 and late '46?

[Steve Birdsall]

I wonder where that Baugher information came from – nothing like that is suggested on 41-2648’s IARC.

The ASV-equipped aircraft’s long career began with the 11th Bomb Group in Hawaii, and it was flying search missions with the 26th Bomb Squadron in June 1942.

The John Ford Midway film is a bit misleadingly edited, and 41-2648 did not take part in the attacks on the Japanese carrier force. Piloted by Lt Hugh Owens, it was one of a six-plane formation that left Hawaii for Midway in the early morning hours of June 6, 1942. I believe this still, tightened up a bit by Jack Fellows, was taken that day or the next . . .



On June 17 41-2648 was “detached” from the 11th and flown to Australia, where it was assigned to the 435th Bomb Squadron, 19th Bomb Group.

The exact date of its transfer to the 43rd Bomb Group is unknown, perhaps not until April 1943. With the 43rd it was first assigned to the 64th Squadron, where it was named Stud Duck, then passed on to the 403rd Squadron in June 1943. On June 30 it was shot up and went to the service squadron for repair. In July it was reassigned to the 65th Squadron and renamed Lil’ Buster Upper. When the 65th converted to Liberators it was taken out of service and returned to the U.S. in October 1943.

[aerovin2]

Steve, as usual, definitive information. Thanks much for your participation in this discussion. Good stuff to read.

[jmkendall]

Thanks Steve!

Without doubt, you are the man on this subject!

Question about Combat hours.

I'm retiring from the Army after 40 years. I have 1132 combat hours on my books. Now, that does not mean I got shot at on each of those missions. Just that I COULD have been shot at. The regs have changed over the decades and my first few hundred hours were under the old regs in use since WW2.

With that in mind, could some of these combat hours/missions be submarine/surface vessel searches? Or was combat time only given for bombing missions in that time frame?

Thanks!

Joe

[Steve Birdsall]

That's a question I've never been able to definitively answer, but I'd say "yes" to the part about sea searches.

It might be worth noting that in mid-1942 a 19th Bomb Group “Rabaul mission” could entail a total of over 20 hours in the air. For example, the following details are from a mission flown by Captain John Chiles of the 93rd Squadron in 41-2453 on 16-17 July 1942.

It began with a 5:40 flight from Longreach in Australia to Port Moresby, New Guinea, followed by an 8:20 flight to attack Rabaul and, as a precaution, return to Horn Island rather than Port Moresby, then a 5:45 flight from Horn back to Longreach.

[Steve Birdsall]

Just a quick update - I raised the issue of 41-2648's possible service with the RAF with Robert Stitt, author of Boeing B-17 Fortress in RAF Coastal Command Service (an excellent book that I highly recommend).

He got in in touch with Joe Baugher, who revealed the original source of his information, but the email address Joe had was no longer effective. Robert was unable to take it any further but said that he was “inclined to agree it's likely a mix-up”.

[terveurn]

Real dumb question on Ford's copy of Midway - was reading an article comparing all three Midway films and one of the things that stood out was John Houston kept the original film / negatives as he did not want the United States or the movie new reals to cut-up the film. he was attempting to preserve the entire film intact for his own project(s).

the question arises what happened to this 20+ (or 200+ hours) hours of color footage.

[Steve Birdsall]

That has always fascinated me too . . . I think there's no doubt John Ford kept the footage to retain exclusivity and creative control, but where is it now? According to film historians, Ford had a total four hours of film. As far as I know, the B-17 footage used in the documentary was shot after Ford was wounded, possibly or probably taken by Jack Mackenzie.

I'd love to see the "cuts and outs" but I doubt I ever will.

[terveurn]

That has always fascinated me too . . . I think there's no doubt John Ford kept the footage to retain exclusivity and creative control, but where is it now? According to film historians, Ford had a total four hours of film. As far as I know, the B-17 footage used in the documentary was shot after Ford was wounded, possibly or probably taken by Jack Mackenzie.

I'd love to see the "cuts and outs" but I doubt I ever will.

Anybody in California willing to take a trip

https://collections.new.oscars.org/Deta ... ems/390101

[terveurn]

That has always fascinated me too . . . I think there's no doubt John Ford kept the footage to retain exclusivity and creative control, but where is it now? According to film historians, Ford had a total four hours of film. As far as I know, the B-17 footage used in the documentary was shot after Ford was wounded, possibly or probably taken by Jack Mackenzie.

I'd love to see the "cuts and outs" but I doubt I ever will.

Anybody in California willing to take a trip

https://collections.new.oscars.org/Deta ... ems/390101

https://collections.new.oscars.org//Det ... ns/1111369

https://collections.new.oscars.org//Det ... ks/1017494

https://collections.new.oscars.org/Deta ... e/71443866