A Rather Unusual B-17E?

[Steve Birdsall]

I was rummaging around in the too-hard basket again and came across this photo of a B-17E . . .



It was sent to me by the late Al Lloyd at the time he was deeply involved in researching his monumental B-24 book. There was no hint of where he got it, or what it showed . . .

It's obviously a B-17E and the serial number is somewhere between 41-9140 and 41-9149. The paintwork and the radome strongly suggest some kind of maritime search and patrol duties. The nose is perhaps the most unusual aspect: that forward cheek window was unique, (or so I thought), to Vega-built B-17Fs from the B-17F-15-VE through the B-17F-35-VE. The astrodome would have been part of that modification process too.

This may have been covered somewhere else, but I've never seen anything on it.

[Dan Johnson]

Radome not a ball turret?

Wonder if it got a nose grafted on? Reminds me a little of that often used photo of the B17E with similar paint in the Panama Canal Zone. That one has the really early remote turret underneath, but has the larger cheek window showing. Not that style though.

Great photo. Just what we need. Another mystery

not 41-9142 0r 41-9145 anyway.

[DryMartini]

I do not wish to suggest that Mr. Birdsall may have a typo,
but I think he meant astrodome, not radome.

The extended cheek window is reminiscent of some B-17F
pictures I've seen of field mods meant to increase the field
of fire. Not too difficult to do.

[Steve Birdsall]

No Bill, that's not a ball turret, it's a radar installation. Maybe AN/APS-15 but I'm no expert in that area.

That way of extending and bulging the cheek window was peculiar to Vega B-17Fs but somehow found its way onto the B-17Es of this unit. Another early B-17E, 41-2473, was modified the same way.

[pokryshkin]

Dear Mr. Birdsall and Aviation Detective Posse Comitatus,
This is obviously, by its scheme, a sea search B-17E in the colors of an aircraft meant for Coastal Command, perhaps?
This machine would be intended for anti-shipping and/or anti-submarine work.
A little cell in the back of my brain seems to recall similar-type aircraft in either the Caribbean or Pacific Command, fitted-out for anti-shipping and/or anti-submarine work.
IF memory serves, however, the aircraft in question had the long "cupid's arrow" Coastal Command 206 Squadron Fortress IIA type antannae, rather than this ball turret "Mickey" or "H2X"-type installation, which, in 8th AF B-17G aircraft, was actually an installation of the H2S-type ground-mapping radar.

I don't know if this helps any, but it's all I have.

Thank you for this fascinating photo!

Regards,

Dan Katz

PS - the fuselage insignia dates this photo to post-May 1943, if it is a solid blue surround, the date would be post-September 1943.

[Steve Birdsall]

A bit more on that Vega B-17F left cheek gun position. Fitted to a B-17F-35-VE on the production line in May 1943 . . .



In the field on the 2nd Bomb Group's Eager Beaver, 42-5776, in North Africa . . .



The photos are originally from the Lockheed and the USAF collections.

[jmkendal]

Is that a B-29 in the background? Assuming it is, and assuming its natural metal, would that help date the photo?

No training codes.....so not a stateside trainer?

She is fully armed, large airfield with a hardstand, B-29 in the background....

So....probably either ZI ( west coast), or Pearl? Panama? Clark? Somewhere in Japan?

Some of you have the rocord cards for these a/c. Can any of them be eliminated either by being destroyed before Sept. 1943, or by being brought back to ZI and used as trainers?

Can anyone id the field? Doesn't look like Hamilton. I was stationed there for six years. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong though.

Joe

[KnockoutDropper]

The biggest hint is the late-style star insignia on the fuselage, which did not show up in the Pacific until late '43 - early '44(I think). It also looks like their might be a Rising Sun kill marker above the nav station. With what I can see of the tail number, I would presume it to be 41-9145 or 41-9147. Were both of the AC still flying by 1944?

[Steve Birdsall]

Thanks to a lead from Tom Michel, I now think that this B-17E was serving with the 1st Search Attack Group at Langley when the photo was taken.

It's also likely that the serial number is 41-9147, but it would be good to know for sure.