Aero Vintage Books

As you may guess, this is related to the Paducah B-17G. I found this shot of 42-102783 online:

Note the lack of a cheek gun mount. Next, the Paducah bird, which is possibly 42-102834(Edit - It's not; see Paducah thread update):

Again no cheek gun mount. Next, 42-102829:

Cheek gun that's darker than the rest of the skin.

My question: Were these cheek gun positions added at modification centers rather than the factory, so some planes didn't get them? Was this usually on trainer versions within the 42-102XXX block?
Over to the experts...

I'm not sure there is one answer here. I think early B-17G production deleted the cheek guns that had been added to B-17F production because the thinking was that the chin turret would be sufficient. If you look at the very early Gs, they did not have the cheek installations. I believe after combat experience, they were added again at modification centers and were eventually added back into the production lines at the assembly factories.

I know there would be a good book entitled "Production History of the B-17 Flying Fortress" that would nail all this stuff down. With a lot more time and a lot more money, I'd write it.

That would be one hell of an informative book Scott.Hurry up and get rich so you can get started on your next book.

Here is another training command B17G without the cheek guns. Hadn't noticed it before. I've seen lots of images of OD/Gray G models without the cheek guns and always thought it was just the early birds and that the cheek guns were added at the modification centers initially.

Surprised to see the NMF birds without them. This is an Alexandria, LA based 17

For those interested... The cheek guns were not (re) added to the Boeing production line until aircraft 42-102800. If the aircraft did not go thru Cheyenne Mod Center and went directly to a ZOI training field, then the aircraft would not have have the cheek package installed.

There also must have been a shortage of Cheyenne pumpkins as well -- been finding a bunch of pictures of B-17G-50 thru 60 aircraft that went thru the mod center but no modified tails installed

Funny you should mention 42-102800; see these LIFE magazine images:


With cheek gun positions - which may put a big dent in my theory that 42-102834 is the Paducah B-17.

Note: no pumpkin

Terveurn, with the info you have available, have you ever found any record of a B-17G being donated to the Boy Scouts in Paducah, KY? Best ID clue I have is that it came from a depot in Memphis rather than Altus.

Just finished all the B-17G-50 / 60 BO's for my e-book

Not many of these aircraft went to Memphis and never left (most Memphis Municipal birds went to Keesler AAF or South Plains AAF for ultimate disposal)

There were two that never left Memphis:

TB-17G 42-102556 - Assigned Memphis Municipal: 11 July 1946 (note: this aircraft was from Aberdeen Proving ground and might have been a paper transfer)

TB-17G 42-102834 - SOC: 21 August 1946 (STNO: SU-A-135)

* * *

Memphis Municipal was also the home of the 4th Ferry Group and they ferried a lot of the ex-combat aircraft from Bradley AAF thru Memphis to South Plains AAF for storage

Thanks! 42-102556 sounds like a possibility since the Paducah plane doesn't have cheek guns. Baugher has it assigned to Aberdeen on July 7, 1946 so I had not noticed it before. I'll be looking forward to that e-book (and so will Scott, I bet!). What fields was it assigned to as a trainer?

42-102556 (c/n: 8058). Available: 14 March 1944 - Boeing Aircraft Co, Seattle, Washington
Accepted: 15 March 1944
Assigned: 16 March 1944 - ATC / 7th Ferry Group - (Gore AAF)
Ferried: 16 March 1944 (Boeing Field - Gore AAF - Cheyenne Municipal)
Mechanical delays
Assigned: 17 March 1944 - United Airlines / Boeing Modification Center #10 - (Cheyenne Municipal)
Assigned: 30 March 1944 - ATC / 7th Ferry Group - (Gore AAF)
Project: Dom 87
Ferried: 31 March 1944 (Cheyenne Municipal - MacDill AAF)
Assigned: 2 April 1944 - 3rd AF / 89th BOTW / 488th BG (RTU) - (MacDill AAF)
redesignated TB-17G
( ) ( M - )
Redesignated: 1 May 1944 - 3rd AF / 326th AAFBU (Combat Crew Training Station - Very Heavy) - (MacDill AAF)
Assigned: 21 October 1944 - 23 October 1944 - 3rd AF / 329th AAFBU (Combat Crew Training Station - Heavy) - (Columbia AAF)
Assigned: 30 December 1944 - ATSC / 4100 AAFBU / Fairfield Air Depot (FAD) - (Patterson AAF)
Assigned: 17 January 1945 / 19 April 1945 - ATSC / 4104th AAFBU (Rome ATSC) - (Rome AAF)
Conversion to B-17H
Ferried: 26 April 1945 (Rome AAF - Richmond AAF - Hunter AAF)
Assigned: 28 April 1945 / 1 May 1945 - 3rd AF / 302nd AAFBU (Staging Wing) - (Hunter AAF)
Modification and Staging Field
Assigned: 8 May 1945 / 30 June 1946 - Western Technical Training Command / 3704th AAFBU (Emergency Rescue School) / 1st Emergency Rescue Squadron - (Keesler Field)
Assigned: 7 July 1946 - Proving Ground Command / 615th AAFBU (Proving Ground Detachment) - (Jefferson Proving Ground)
Aberdeen Proving Grounds
Assigned: Thursday, 11 July 1946 - ATC / 4th Ferry Group / 554th AAFBU - (Memphis Municipal Airport) - SOC.

42-102834 (c/n: 8336). Available: 9 April 1944 - Boeing Aircraft Co, Seattle, Washington
Accepted: 10 April 1944
Assigned: 12 April 1944 - ATC / 7th Ferry Group - (Gore AAF)
Ferried: 12 April 1944 (Boeing Field - Gore AAF - Cheyenne Municipal)
Assigned: 15 April 1944 - United Airlines / Boeing Modification Center #10 - (Cheyenne Municipal)
Assigned: 24 April 1944 - ATC / 7th Ferry Group - (Gore AAF)
Project: DOM 93
Ferried: 26 April 1944 (Cheyenne Municipal - Selman AAF - Drew AAF)
Assigned: 28 April 1944 - 3rd AF / 89th BOTW / 396th BG (RTU) - (Drew AAF)
redesignated TB-17G
( ) ( D - )
Assigned: 1 May 1944 - 3rd AF / 89th BOTW / 327th AAFBU (Combat Crew Training Station - Heavy) / Section " " - (Drew AAF)
Ground accident (class 4): Wednesday, 13 September 1944 - Batista Field, Havana - Cuba (22°52'18"N / 82°30'33"W)
(Pilot: 2Lt Hubert F Beatty)
AAF accident report: 45-9-13
TDY: 2 November 1944 / 30 December 1944 - Special Project (unknown)
Assigned: 22 November 1944 - 3rd AF / 89th BOTW / 326th AAFBU (Combat Crew Training Station - Heavy) / Section " " - (MacDill AAF)
( ) ( M - )
Assigned: 2 December 1945 - 3rd AF / 62nd AAFBU (Air Rescue Service) - (MacDill AAF)
Assigned: 9 April 1946 - ATC / 62nd AAFBU (Air Rescue Service) - (MacDill AAF)
Assigned: 19 August 1946 - ATC / 4th Ferry Group / 554th AAFBU - (Memphis Municipal) - SOC.
Stricken: 21 August 1946 - (Memphis Municipal)
STNO: SU-A-135

Hi Terveurn,
Thanks for the info. What does "STNO" stand for?

Someone once said it was the last four digits of the serial number, but that's not right.

And is there a list that decodes the "Project No."?

Thanks for your help. I need it...
NIck

NickV wrote:Hi Terveurn,
Thanks for the info. What does "STNO" stand for?

Someone once said it was the last four digits of the serial number, but that's not right.

And is there a list that decodes the "Project No."?

Thanks for your help. I need it...
NIck

Nick, you have probably already seen this, but Robert Mann's book on record cards states, for STNO:
"Meaning unknown but appears to be a control number for transfer of a plane from RFC to scrapper/salvager"

He also states that a master decode list for project numbers does not seem to exist, for what it is worth.