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Attn shoppers: 3 more trainers

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:37 am
by Chris Brame
42-37895; per AAIR this was 2 miles SSE of Hendricks. Osborne listing seems to be way off. Interesting... You don't often see an OD/NG G-model without cheek guns:
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Org-Photo-B-17 ... SweSddIlyS
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Org-Photo-B-17 ... SwE0tdIpXM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Org-Photo-B-17 ... SwzixdIpVU

44-6208 and 44-6213: I'm guessing Lowry (by the altitude on the hangar) early postwar with the buzz number on '08? Code numbers similar to Hobbs but different stencil style and no "H".
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Org-WWII-Photo ... SwLrtdHR93
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Org-WWII-Photo ... SwrI1dHRtC

Re: Attn shoppers: 3 more trainers

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:45 am
by terveurn
You have to watch AAIR - they use the location from the accident cards. The problem is the accident cards have a strange way of reporting locations; They use closest city / town as a point of reference and not the closest airfield (which would be logical)

2 miles SSE of Sebring is Hendricks AAF

Re: Attn shoppers: 3 more trainers

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:35 pm
by Dennis56
That's because AAIR DOES use the original crash reports. Sometimes, a report can lead you straight to a site, other times, it's off by a country mile. Often, by AAF practice, the "location" for a town, in this case Sebring, would be the Post Office in that particular town. Some cases, they took a puddle jumper and timed straight flight from the "point" to the actual crash site. Now I need to see where the Sebring Post Office is (was) Dennis

So I'm looking over this more, and if the report said "Hendricks", It most likely was Hendricks (Which put him awful close to going into Lake Istokpoga).
There were a number of reports which listed directions from Hendricks. At least one listed Lake Placid.
Now there are some interesting looking undeveloped locations just SSE of both Sebring, and Hendricks (now called Sebring). Maybe I need to dust off my boots when the weather cools off a bit (I was just over to Avon Park a few weeks ago and it was hotter than blazes)

Re: Attn shoppers: 3 more trainers

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:52 pm
by terveurn
Dennis56 wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:35 pm That's because AAIR DOES use the original crash reports. Sometimes, a report can lead you straight to a site, other times, it's off by a country mile. Often, by AAF practice, the "location" for a town, in this case Sebring, would be the Post Office in that particular town. Some cases, they took a puddle jumper and timed straight flight from the "point" to the actual crash site. Now I need to see where the Sebring Post Office is (was) Dennis
Exactly and too many times, Osborne does not use the crash records (or does not know they exist). Way too many mistakes with this reference in that regard.

AAIR is good, but way too expensive for the serious researcher. If they used the originals (at the National Archives) the price might be worth it, but they use the microfilm from Maxwell which can range from great photos to shit. I have seen the originals at the National Archives and the difference is amazing. Just hoping someday Fold3 uploads these files as well (I would also like to see Fold upload the original KU and ME records which are also in deep storage)

Now back to the photos: 3 miles SSE from Sebring is about 1/2 way to Hendricks and looks to be scrublands (around DeSoto and Ranch Roads)

Re: Attn shoppers: 3 more trainers

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:57 pm
by terveurn
Do you have the FUDS for Avon Park

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Avon Park FUDS.JPG

Re: Attn shoppers: 3 more trainers

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:29 pm
by Dennis56
I have to say this site has been a great learning experience for me. Just a few weeks ago, you all identified my "burning B-17 picture (also ebay). Now, my education continues. I'm reading about Osborne ("Queen if the Skys?" David Osborne). While I have come across his (yes, often wrong references), I never connected the two. I always thought "Osborne" was a crazy musician who ate the heads off bats.
And "FUDS" (I now know "Formerly Used Defense Sites"). The only FUD I knew hunted wabbits. :D
To clarify: When I go over to Avon Park, I am helping the base "Cultural Resource Manager" (read Archaeologist). We usually are hunting for or checking on WWII crash sites, although when I was over a few weeks back, the part I found embedded in a tree turned out to be a completely different site (F-4). FWIW, Avon does have 2 interesting B-17 sites. One I was able to identify as a B-17F (42-5958 - "Wet Dream"), and another mysterious site, because we can find no record of a B-17 incident that matches the location (there are 2 R1820s laying in the woods, the main gear, and other debris that includes the bombay door gear boxes).
As for AAIR and Craig Fuller, the last report I ordered was around 25.00 and I considered an investment for the hunt I was considering. While 25.00 might be a bit expensive for research, when it comes to a hunt it can make or break the decision to continue. When I consider the time and gas money for a hunt, 25.00 can save me much more if the report determines it isn't worth it. I feel Craig has always been fair, and a few times he has even "donated" towards hunts involving the questions of surviving family members or descendants of crash victims.
Other valuable resources would be Tony Mireles' "Fatal Army Air Force Accidents", which again, isn't cheap, but has led me straight to a few sites.
Another, if still available is "Aircraft Accidents In Florida 1941-1945" by Bob Widner. Bob was very instrumental in my becoming an experienced wreck hunter.
Now back to 42-38795. Someone mentioned THREE miles SSE Hendricks. This would be IN Lake Istapoka. TWO miles would be very close to the lake. The pics are interesting as the visible props are neither feathered nor damaged ??????? Also interesting that as a G model, it still has the early (steeplechase?) tail gun position. Also interesting how it appears to have plowed across that field and ended up in the trees. Dennis

Re: Attn shoppers: 3 more trainers

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:48 pm
by terveurn
Dennis56 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:29 pm
As for AAIR and Craig Fuller, the last report I ordered was around 25.00 and I considered an investment for the hunt I was considering. While 25.00 might be a bit expensive for research, when it comes to a hunt it can make or break the decision to continue. When I consider the time and gas money for a hunt, 25.00 can save me much more if the report determines it isn't worth it. I feel Craig has always been fair, and a few times he has even "donated" towards hunts involving the questions of surviving family members or descendants of crash victims.
Other valuable resources would be Tony Mireles' "Fatal Army Air Force Accidents", which again, isn't cheap, but has led me straight to a few sites.
Another, if still available is "Aircraft Accidents In Florida 1941-1945" by Bob Widner. Bob was very instrumental in my becoming an experienced wreck hunter.
Contact Maxwell and they will send you the accident report(s) for free (same report as AAIR).

Mireles "Fatal AAF Accidents" is an invaluable reference... My beef with this series is he did not go far enough. Does not give aircraft identification (side codes) when they are listed and you need book three to cross reference the serial numbers with the accident reports.

Now have you purchased any of the B-17 Production books ??

https://smile.amazon.com/Boeing-B-17-Pr ... 069236546X

https://smile.amazon.com/Boeing-B-17-Pr ... 0692859845

btw - book three (G-35 to 45 BO's) wil be out this fall


Dave