Aero Vintage Books

I figured out how to get screen shots on my computer so I took some time to go through the film again.

This stuff may interest only me, but I was looking for things specific to this particular B17. Never know if it might be a clue to the real idendity of old Mary Ann

Meeting her for the first time. That observation blister is definately to the right over the cockpit.


The name under the cockpit.


314th A.B. Squadron? It looks like 8211 on #18 next to Mary Ann. Note the patch on number 1 cowling


The first view of that metal strip on the number 3 cowl prior to take off for Hickam Field.


The white tail leading edge as they taxi out for the flight to Hickam


Another view of the metal strip on 3 cowling, and note the overpainted scallop on the 4 cowling.


Another view of that 4 cowl. Any particular BG with B17Bs use that marking?


An interesting one...to me anyway...where it appears the 4 cowl is now on engine 3. You can make out that overpainted marking again.


Swinging her around for her last take off. No de-icer boots that I can see


John Garfield at work. Nice view of the early waist windows


Whats that circle on the gun tub?


Looks like de-icer boots now. The last mission

Just on a whim I checked Baugher's site.

B17B 38-211 crashed 8 mi ENE of Hendricks,w/o Sep 24, 1943 so she'd have been around for the filming time.

Could be that she's #18 in the film

Hmm I learn more every day. I didn't know 38-211 was the first B17B. Could it be her in Air Force?

A very impressive bit of detective work, sir, and adding much to the discussion. Me thinks that with so many detail-oriented people looking at this the identity (identities) will emerge for this movie star.

Dan Johnson wrote:Just on a whim I checked Baugher's site.

B17B 38-211 crashed 8 mi ENE of Hendricks,w/o Sep 24, 1943 so she'd have been around for the filming time.

Could be that she's #18 in the film

Hmm I learn more every day. I didn't know 38-211 was the first B17B. Could it be her in Air Force?

Dan,

Sorry, B-17B # 38-211 might have been written off on 24 Sept 1943 but the airplane was wrecked in a fatal accident on 22 October 1942. See page 176 Volume I of FATAL ARMY AIR FORCES AVIATION ACCIDENTS IN THE UNITED STATES 1941-1945 by Anthony J. Mireles for details regarding this crash. There is an AAF accident report for this airplane. I have a copy and the airplane definately crashed 22 Oct 1942, so it can't be the Mary Ann, which was purportedly photographed on 6 April 1943.

Many may know that B-17B # 38-211 can be seen in a famous color photo[s] when the airplane had markings for the Material Division of Wright Field; the markings are MD 105 on the tail and the wing. The airplane is frequently mistaken as a B-17C because it is retrofitted in a B-17C configuration with flat waist, conventional radio room and ventral gun tub deletion. Photos of this airplane in B-17C configuration can be seen on page 33 of B-17 FLYING FORTRESS IN DETAIL AND SCALE by Alwyn T. Lloyd. There are several other photos of B-17B # 38-211 in various publications. The identfiable photos are with the MD 105 markings. The B-17B in the background in photo three is probably 38-211 as is suggested by Dan; apparently this airplane was destroyed a short time after being filmed.

According to a book by the late Jeff Ethell, the B-17B featured on page 33 of BOMBER COMMAND is the Mary Ann. Two photos of this airplane (with Mary Ann nose art) can be found on page 155 of WWII AMERICAN WAR EAGLES 1937-1942 by Warren Bodie. These photos were said to be taken on 6 April 1943. All photos of the airplane that is purported to be the Mary Ann have nose art that reads: "MARY ANN--STAR OF 'AIR FORCE'". This nose art was applied by the AAF, so they are convinced that this is the airplane that starred as Mary Ann. What is the serial number? Well, as stated in a previous post, many smart people have been working on this question for some time now and no definitive answer has emerged.

Great work on the screen shots.



C-47B

My hat is off to you, sir!!!
I had "18" as "8269" which of course is now seen as WRONG!!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
We now have TWO POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED AIRCRAFT from Air Force.
Can the gentleman who got these try for the descending sequence over Hawaii and get good views of the aircraft in flight descending over all those mid-Florida trees?

This MIGHT solve the puzzle for once and for all.

Gratefully,
Dennis L. "Dan " Katz

PS - Don't forget that the flightline and aerial filming - in fact ALL the location shots - were done between June and August, 1942.

Mr. Johnson, I hope you can do those in-flight letdown "over Hawaii" shots to double check on the S/N seeen on the rudder over the "10". I'm not sure whether there are 4 or 5 digits there. Can you help me?

Finally, here are the lists again (1) B-17B aircraft Modernized in 1941, by
photographic evidence,
(2) B-17B aircraft possibly modernized by
the fact they were at Sebring June-
August, 1942, and
(3) B-17B aircraft at Sebring/Hendricks
June-August 1942:
(1) 38-213,
38-216,
38-218 (Washington training strip: Esmeralda,
38-219,
38-221(Crashed in Panama Command territory, quickly written off)
38-258 (at Sebring during filming, crashed January 1943, soon W/O).
38-259 (Crashed March, 1942)
38-268 (Crashed October, 1942)
38-269
38-583 (at Sebring July-August 1942, Crashed October 1943
39-001 "15" (At Sebring - John Garfield boarding scene)
[Lowery 1943 "boneyard" sans wings and
elevators with "4-F"painted over "15"still visible, with
"THE GOLDBRICK" painted on nose, photo is above one
of the Appendixes in rear of Fortress In the Sky
39-006 (Crash September 1942, to Reclamation January 1946)
AND
39-007 (Aircraft Record Card lists as "Modernized" 1942; at Sebring
for [/i]Air Force fillming; MAAD de-icers November 1942,
to Amarillo July 1943, to Reclamation January 1946) "10"??
"Mary Ann"??
(2) 38-212 (at Sebring during filming) (behind "9001/4-F" at Lowery '43)
38-260 (at Sebring during filming)
38-261 "07"(at Sebring during filming)
38-270 (at Sebring during filming)
39-003 (at Sebring for filming, to Amarillo Class 26 September 1943)
["10"??]["Mary Ann"??]
(3) 38-211"18" (Crashed Hendricks/Sebring October 1942, W/O )
38-212
38-258
38-260
38-261 "07"
38-269
38-270
39-001"15"
39-003 "10"? "Mary Ann"?
39-007 "10"? "Mary Ann"?

totalling 11 aircraft, NOT counting B-17D 40-3065.

I hope this helps. "Mary Ann" "10" has GOT to be ONE OF THESE B-17B AIRCRAFT!!!

Thank you yet again.
Regards,
Dan
Edited and new info added 07:32/1 April 2009/dlk

PS - First, note that "Weinberg on wing" the off-center to the right Mission Commander's Bubble of a B-17B.
Second, that circle is the side window of the "Bathtub" gun position in its usual position. PS items added 3/31/09\3:30PM/dlk
Third, that 38-262's crash was in April 1942.

pokryshkin wrote:My hat is off to you, sir!!!
I had "18" as "8269" which of course is now seen as WRONG!!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
We now have TWO POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED AIRCRAFT from Air Force.
Can the gentleman who got these try for the descending sequence over Hawaii and get good views of the aircraft in flight descending over all those mid-Florida trees?

This MIGHT solve the puzzle for once and for all.

Gratefully,
Dennis L. "Dan " Katz

PS - Don't forget that the flightline and aerial filming - in fact ALL the location shots - were done between June and August, 1942.

If I can get some time this evening I will take another shot at it.

Dan

Mary Ann coming in over the trees. I see 5 numbers on the tail not 4


9001 #15


I only have numbers for 7 of the 9 17s
7, 5, 10, 16,18,12, 15. Anyone know the other two?

As mentioned in another thread it appears 07 is 8261

38-212 was also at Lowry. It can be seen in the background of Bill Larkins' photo of 39-001 in the Lowry boneyard. From this angle it looks like 38-212 is on her gear with its horizontal still attached.
NickV

MAN! You guys are first rate.I enjoy reading all of these post pertaining to Mary Ann.What the hell will we all do when you guys find out all the info.This could make a great book Of "On the hunt" type.

Bless ye, Sirs!!!
Obviously, the aircraft that (what evidence I have) seems to be
39-007 or else 39-003 (from that Newspaper story that Steve Birdsall sent in to the main B-17 News Update Site) was repainted very early on so that no one would see the correct S/N.

Dan, there're one or two other scenes that MIGHT tell us: Revving up for initial takeoff, and starting to taxi out in Hawaii: the very start of that "Hawaii jungle scene" you can see the S/N atop the rudder for a very few seconds, perhaps only 1 or 2; again, if you can make out 5 digits we'll know that the censors and Counterintelligence people were zealous in their work.

Still, we now have 3 possibly 4 aircraft ID'd:
39-001/15, 38-211/18, 38-261/07, and 38-212/??. all from Air Force!
The plane-in-group numbers on "Air Force" sharktails I had gotten off the screen back in the '90's were: 02, 05, 07, 08, 10, 12, 15, 16, 18.

Gentlemen, this is one Heck of a research job! I am in awe of all of you for what you have accomplished with this. I'd been dillettantishly trying with my limited equipment, abilities, etc., to solve this puzzle as much as possible, for some years now, and here in a VERY short time we have four aircraft solidly ID'd, thanks to your magnificent efforts!!
I admit I'd love to find out the plane-in-group number for 8212!
With respectful gratitude,
Dan K.

Mr. Thompson, Sir,
Could you possibly add that boneyard photo of 39-001 with 38-212 in the background, from "Fortress In The Sky" here?
If you can show that barbetted-B-17B at Boeing on the news website, you could surely put that important photo of 9001 at the end here to complete our photographic research.
I can't find the copy that I had gotten years ago, possibly mislaid in the move up here in '07 and I cannot afford another copy at the prevailing prices.

Also, it would complete this thread and make available almost all the research sources in existance right here!

With grateful thanks in advance,
Dan K.