One more Air Force question...

[Dan Johnson]

I've stared at the thing long enough now I'm almost Air Force'd out. But one other thing caught my eye.

Now keep in mind I'm not an early B17 expert so when something catches my eye it's not because I was looking for it, but because something doesn't look right.

So with that in mind, in the first scene on the ramp where we see the line up of B17s, number "05" looked different.

I marked the things that seemed off to me on the image below. First is the nose glass shape seems different. Second is there isn't the 3 windows on the right side of the nose like the others. the middle of the 5 covers right where a window would be. It appears there is a window towards the bottom of the 5 however.

It also appears there is a radio mast above the cockpit. I don't believe it's from the truck as it's angled back to the left as it would be if it was straight off the roof of the 17.

Finally the waist windows look bulged to me.

Is it possible there was an even earlier B17 version in the movie, even as a backdrop? 05 is seen taking off later with 05 on the tail, but not on the nose but it doesn't look the same as it has the later waist windows.

Anyway, sorry for being a pest on Air Force, but it's been fun playing detective.

[pokryshkin]

Dan, it looks like "05" in the lineup is an unmodernized B-17B to which someone has added one heck of a large radio antenna, or else it is in the distant background of the shot, I don't know which.

Hope this helps!
Regards,
Dan

[pokryshkin]

It just hit me:
My God! Could "05" be a YB-17, or even the YB-17A??? This would account for that nose and those window positions, and even account for the tall radio antenna!!!
Also, it looks like the original YB-17 nose machine gun bubble, that is on the outside of the nose bubble, has been deleted or removed.

IF someone else can check up on YB assignments post-1941, this might be an aircraft assigned to Sebring/Hendricks!!!

Possible candidates for YB-17s that might have been assigned to Sebring during filming are: 36-149, 36-151, 36-153, 36-154, 36-155, 36-158, 36-159, 36-160, 36-161, all going to Amarillo sometime in October, November, or December, 1942. (meaning that's when they were Class-26'd.)
This would account for a sudden change in aircraft assigned that specific plane-in-group number "05" during filming: candidates for the flightline "05" are narrowed down to:
36-158 (listed to Amarillo as 10/13/42), and 36-161 (Amarillo 10/9/42).
(all data per Freeman's book) Those two are the earliest ones sent to Amarillo, and might have been at Sebring in June, 1942, or later.
Hope this helps!
Regards,
Dan K.
Addenda re nose bubble added 10:30Am 31MAR09/dlk

[Dan Johnson]

I was thinking YB-17 based on the nose windows etc. It looks lke the earlier YB nose contour underneath as well.

[pokryshkin]

I suspect that we both are spot on. I am honored that I got the idea almost as soon as you did!

I don't have any more info at this point. Maybe access to the record cards of the relevant YBs would provide more info.

Thanks again!

Now, when I watch my copied DVD(from Public TV '93) or even my purchased DVD, I'll take a closer look at that flightline walk and see what else might show up during John Ridgely's walk...(although you can probably do infinitely better!!!)

Grateful regards,
Dan K.

[Dan Johnson]

More proof of the early YB17 involved. This was in the trailer for the film. No doubt about the antenna mast, RDF loop and the bulges under the fuselage and at the waist. Not the intakes on top of the engines also.

Needless to say this was from a take off scene

[Dan Johnson]

And number 09 that shows up on the flight line, and in the air. Does that make 10 numbers we now have for Air Force B17s?

[pokryshkin]

Dear Dan,
NICE ONE!!!

In fact, NICE TWO!!!!

I don't recall an "09" but this now makes 12 different aircraft used in the film:
"02" "05"(YB), "05"(B), "07"("8261"), "07", "08", "09", "10"'05564'("9003" or "9007), "12", "15"("9001"), "16", and "18"("8211")

In the Tower shot, it's "10" next to "16" on the ramp.

Grateful regards,
Dan K.

[Dan Johnson]

An interesting image from the Sebring Regional Airport website
http://www.sebring-airport.com/History.html

Another B17B #17?



I've decided to go for it btw and see how far I can go with this thing. I figure there has to be someone who either flew out of Sebring in the summer of 42 or worked on 17s that has a photo album out there with all kinds of photos of those early 17s at work.

There has to be a way to nail this down

[pokryshkin]

Either Colonel Saavedra or the Smithsonian had mailed me this, out of a handout (3 or 5 sheets) about the Sebring airport.
Yes, I think we now have 12 referred aircraft!!!
02, 05(YB), 05(B), 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 15, 16. 17, 18!!!

07/8261, 10/05564(9007?)[9003??], 15/9001, 18/8211 !!

Best of luck with this!!!

Please let me know!!!

Regards,

Dan K.

Just one thing, though...that Mission Commander's Buble looks centered; this MIGHT be a C model, possible received AFTER August '42.