Aero Vintage Books

OK so I was killing time. I ran the taxi out sequence over and over trying to get a good look at the 4 numbers on Mary Ann #10.

I first got another good look at 07 which confirmed it's 8261. Then after a million tries I got a good look at 10. Just to be clear I wasn't looking for any particular number, just going with what jumped. And it did. 4 numbers above the 10. White leading edge of the vertical tail. And 8584 jumped off the screen.

I got a screenshot. It's not great, but it does show the 4 numbers and I can see the 8584. It's fuzzy but it's there.

After seeing 8584 I searched 38-584 and it came back a B17B.

Hope you can see it in the screenshot like I did.


Blown up and cropped. Fuzzier but I can see it.


Tried to outline it best I could.

"By jove, I think he's got it." At least one of them.

Offering a theory on 8584. Is it possible that it was the B17 mentioned in the 1943 article posted where Hollywood was loaned a B17 for flying sequences? It wouldn't need to be assigned to Hendricks then.

There are any number of scenes that involve only one B17, Mary Ann that may have been shot at a different time and place. Outside of the flight line, taxi sequence and the initial flight to Pearl, she's really on her own throughout the movie.

The tail end 17 shots are clearly stock footage as there are red striped tails on the B17Es and D. The cockpit shots of the 17s meeting Mary Ann show reversed numbers so they basically took the early formation film and flipped it.

Is there a record card for 8584 that shows what it was up to? Baughers site just lists it as a B17B but no details on it.

Wow!!! Great Work! That is what Number 10 appears to be. Good Job!!!

According to Roger Freeman's book on B-17 serial numbers:

38-584 Delivered Salt Lake City 7 Sept 1940; Lowry 24 July 1943; Written off 6 December 1943.


I'll check for an accident in early December 1943 and see if there is an accident report.


C-47B

If we accept that 8584 was the only Mary Ann, that still allows for the color photos taken in April 43.

You gotta love playing history detective

THANK YOU DAN, THANK YOU GOD!!!!!

THIS PARTIALLY ENDS A 45-YEAR (OR SO) SEARCH!!!!!!!

NOW we can figure it out: Check my last post on "1943 Movie 'Air Force' "

THIS aircraft could keep its third digit, and its final digit, and the repaint would not be total!
8584 and "05564" aren't that far apart!

Grateful and thank ful regards,
Dan K.

Okay Dan Pokryshkin, what are you going to do now? What will you do with your life now that this has been solved? Ha Ha.

C-47B

C-47B wrote:Okay Dan Pokryshkin, what are you going to do now? What will you do with your life now that this has been solved? Ha Ha.

C-47B

Ahh but it's only just begun. Now we have to find out the history in more detail of 38-584. Who crewed this particular B17B? Was it with the 7th BG at Salt Lake City? Can we find photos of Mary Ann before she became a movie star?

We just scratched the surface by getting the serial number

So C47B, don't stop on that accident report or those B17B microfilm reels !

Okay Dan.

Sending out the money for the B-17B reels on Saturday.

I will go downstairs and hit the microfilm tonight.

Hey, great job on that. I am totally happy for you.

Now on number 10, the fake serial number can be seen on the right hand side of the vertical fin, if I remember correctly? Or am I remembering incorrectly?

C-47B

This actually DOES explain that final "4" being different to the "6" just before it, on the LEFT/PORT rudder side; that second-next-to-last-number "5" is also original!

Now, all we need to do is get the S/Ns of all the OTHER aircraft in the film!

Dan K.

Actually, I was starting work on an article or a book. \
I HAVE been published before: check out the May 1989 Air International Modelling Column, and the November 1989 Air International: The Tupolevs of Tamiami.

Being so near broke, an article or book like this might save the olde homestead!

Oh well......

Dik Shepherd has the record cards and, based on the card, here is the assignment history of 38-584:

Delivered to Hamilton Field, CA, 01 Feb 1940

Transferred to Salt Lake, 07 Sep 1940

Visited Langley Field, VA, 02 Jun 41

Went to Boeing from 09 Jun to 11 Jun 41

Transferred to Westover Field, 11 Jun 41

Transferred to Geiger Field, 08 Dec 41

To Yakima. WA, 22 Dec 41

To S.A.D. (Sacramento Air Depot), 23 Dec 41

To Geiger Field, 18 Jan 42

To Felts Field, 19 Jan 42

Transferred to Tucson, AZ, 07 Feb 42

To Boise, 27 May 42

To Salt Lake, 14 Jun 42

To Tucson, 17 Jun 42

Transferred to Sebring, FL, 06 Jun 42

To Barksdale, Jul 42

To Mitchell Field, 20 Jun 43

To Hendricks Field, 08 Jul 43

To Lowry Field, 24 Jul 43

To Memphis, 25 Jul 43

Transferred to Hobbs Field, NM, 30 Jul 43

Placed in Class 26, 29 Oct 43

Total Flight Time Recorded, 2336.4 hours

Beautiful!!!

May I have permission to write about this, giving you and all the others due credit and recognition for all you - and they- have done to achieve this end?

I have placed this request on several other related forums, if you are able - and God knows, you have more than a busy schedule - to check on them - and it would mean a great deal to me to be allowed to write all this up. Thank you, for all you have done, and for this incredible website forum, and all the other related things that you have put at the public's fingertips!

Gratefully,
Dan K.

Dan K........

Go for it. As far as I'm concerned you have the passion for this and have pushed it to this point....I don't think anyone will have a problem with you working it into something that can be published. I'll add a bit about the material to my next B-17 update but that goes to a very limited audience. I'd like to assemble a summary of what we now know and add it to my B-17 News page.

I'll also update my Air Force movie page.

By the way, don't forget that Bill Stanczak started the ball rolling on this whole ID thing as he determined it was a B-17B and not a B-17C that was used as the Mary Ann, at least that's what I saw from my corner of the internet.

Thank you!

By the way, is that "Desert Rat" Bill's last name?
I want to give EVERYBODY who did this credit and recognition!
You all MORE than deserve it!!!

Your grateful friend,
Dan K.

PS - the offset Mission Commander's Bubble always gives it away, at least tfrom what I've seen.

Yep, it's Bill Desert Rat Stanczak.