1943 Movie "Air Force"

[pokryshkin]

I have just gotten back an email from Col. J.A. (Bill) Saavedra of the USAF History Office, in response to my query. I here quote him, with his knowledge, verbatim:
"I have been reviewing Microfilm records for Sebring/Hendricks and some training Squadrons (449, 450, 451, 453), looking for references to actrivities related to the filming of . While these Air Force. While these reprts primarily contain personnel and organizational matters, some may include copies of Daily Bulletings, Base Newspapers, Press Releases, etc., which are more likely to mention items such as support to the making of a movie. I have also been looking for information on the lBond Drive. So far, I have not found any mention of supporting activities for the filming of Air Force.

"From a review of Record Cards, it appears that the following aircraft were at Sebring during the time of the in-flight filming of Air Force: 38-211, 38-212, 38-259, 38-260, 38-261, 38-262, 38-269, 38-270 - -
39-1, 39-3, 39-7 - - 40-3065. Of these aircraft, only two were sent to Amarillo Class 26 -- 39-3 on 14 Sep 43 and 39-7 on 17 Jul 43, -- however, neither aircraft shows assignment to Hobbs. But, Hobbs was used as a storage and transfer point. Aircraft 39-1 shows transfer to Lowery on 12 Jul 43 and to Class 26 at Lowery on 11 Sep 43.

If the Amarillo newspaper clipping is considered to be a credible account, the aircraft used for Mary Ann was most likely either 39-3 or 39-7.

...."

[aerovin2]

Nice bit of research...thanks for posting it here.

[pokryshkin]

FYI, I GOOFED!!!

The Serial, and the plane-in-group number "18", are visible THROUGH GAPS IN THE WORK LADDER UNDER NUMBER 2 ENGINE IN THE FLIGHTLINE SCENE WHERE, FIRST, JOHN RIDGELY, AND THEN, SECOND, THE "2ND RADIOMAN", SPEAKS TO HARRY CAREY. The numbers can be seen through these 3 or 4 gaps in the workstation in the background of this scene. These numbers over the "18" we now know to be "8211".

I wanted to get this info posted ASAP so that interested parties could double-check my information.

Also, if someone has some of that lovely photo-enhancement software, that you see on some of these detective TV shows, you could put it to work on the following scenes:

(1) Flightline, where, "07", in front, (which we now know to be "8261")turns to taxi out towards the main runway or takeoff, followed, later in this scene, by "10". This is deliberately poorly lit (day for night, night filters to obscure S/Ns)

(2) Takeoff runway scene, where "10" runs up the engines prior to brakes release; there are a couple of spots where the tail numbers might be visible as the camera moves, trying NOT to show fin/rudder. (also poorly lit, night filters; possibly taken at dawn or dusk; but THIS IS the critical sequence, as Dan Johnson has already said. Can someone manage to get this sequence in better contrast, and then get the S/N off the tail of "10"?)

One or more of these scenes MIGHT be the answer to "Mary Ann"'s ID!

"07"'s S/N added 12:50PM/4/05/09\dlk

[pokryshkin]

ANOTHER GOOF:

It seems that 40-3092 was NOT at Sebring/Hendricks during the filming of Air Force (although 40-3065 WAS), and so should be removed from consideration as one of the "film star" B-17s!

I apologize for this error.

Until I saw Col. Saavedra's email, I thought that because it had similar numbers on the rudder, under the USAAC S/N, that this aircraft HAD been in the film.

It is now clear that early B-17s (B-17B, B-17C, B-17D) were still being stationed at Sebring/Hendricks up to and through the year 1943, and possibly even later.
Being fundamentally mechanical-system-wise similar to the later aircraft, and also with Wright Cyclones, they could STILL serve as both crew trainers at Hendricks, and also, then and later, serve as maintenance trainers at places such as Lowery (where my Dad saw an old B-10 in a hangar at a subsidiary field), and Amarillo.

It is at around the end of 1943 that most "sharktails" which were still in existence which had not ALREADY been reclassified into Class-26, and which were training airplnes, were THEN moved to Class 26 and/or began to get scrapped.

We must thank our lucky stars (AND General Brett's refusal to exchange 40-3097 "Swoose" for a newer model B-17) that there is still the lone B-17D in a museum!

The ONLY reason that 40-3097 was NOT scrapped is that it was a workhorse airplane (a General's Mount - used by the C/O of Panama Defense Command/Carribbean Defense Command) all during World War 2, and even past V-J Day!!!

The only other B-17C or B-17D airplanes that I know of that MIGHT still be in existence are at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean: a B-17C that was ditched 4 miles off the Phillippines after trying to bomb the Japanese invasion fleet, during the same action in which Colin Kelly's 40-2045 was shot down by Saburo Sakai (he got lucky - the radioman had left his position to contact Clark Field), B-17D 40-3089, somewhere in the Pacific (Captain Eddie Rickenbacker's aircraft that was ditched after the crew got lost), and possibly one or two more littering the sea bed between Australia, the Phillippines, and New Guinea.

Perhaps Bob Ballard should be enlisted for a survey of such potential restorees!!!
Updated and extra info added 12:56PM/4/05/09/dlk[/i]

[pokryshkin]

The Aircraft Record Card for 39-007 has the word "Modernized" stamped on one of the pages, so this is another aircraft that was in fact brought up to B-17C/D standard in 1941 by Boeing.
Thought you'd like to know.

[pokryshkin]

A corrected list of B-17Bs that were used in this film includes the following Modernized B-17B aircraft: 38-211, 38-259, 38-269, 39-9001, 39-007, and at least three of these aircraft: 38-212, 38-260, 38-261, 38-270 and of course that B-17D 40-3065, unidentifiable in the long-distance formation shots.

The photographic evidence from the 9-plane flight shown in the film
indicates that almost all of these aircraft WERE or HAD BEEN Modernized at some point, whether at Boeing or at an aviation depot.

For a comprehensive list of possible "Modernized" aircraft, see "Another B-17B Upgraded to C?" Forum.

Again, hope that helps.
Sincerely,
Dan K.
39-002 edited out (3/31/09\5:09PM EDT as it was not there for filming)and 38-212 edited IN (4/05/09\13:13EDT )as it WAS there for filming\dlk

[pokryshkin]

To sum up what we know so far:(as of9 April 2009 10:16PM EDT)
1: The film "Air Force" uses mostly modernized B-17B aircraft, and was
shot at Hendricks/Sebring between June and August 1942.
1a: A single YB-17 "05" is seen in initial flightline and later takeoff
sequences. In Dan Johnson's Hendricks AB book, , another is "00"
2: Aircraft seen in various sequences: "02", "05"(YB-17), "05"(B-17B?),
"07/"8261", "08"." "09", "10"/'05564'\8584", "12", "15"/"9001", "16",
"18"/"8211".
3: B-17B Aircraft known to be at Sebring/Hendricks during filming, June
through August, 1942: 38-211"18", 38-212 , 38-259, 38-260,
38-261"07", 38-269, 38-270"17", Apparently 38-584"10"/"05564,"
39-001"15", 39-003 , 39-006 "04", 39-007, 38-???/39-???"05"
...POSSIBLY at least ONE B-17C,
...and B-17D 40-3065, at Sebring from 6/20/1942 to 11/07/1942
...plus at least 2 YB-17s, "05," "00"(36-158 or 36-161?) Class-26-ed
(in June?)
4: B-17B aircraft lost after filming: 38-211"18" fatal accident 10/1942
5: B-17Bs in non-fatal accidents : 38-269"??" accident 10/1942
6: YB-17s and B-17Bs to Class-26 Amarillo and dates sent there:
6a: YB-17s: 36-149, to Amarillo 11/02/1942
36-151, to Amarillo 11/21/1942
36-154, to Amarillo 11/12/1942
36-155, to Amarillo 11/12/1942
36-158, to Amarillo 10/13/1942. possibly flightline "05"?
36-159, to Amarillo 11/19/1942
36-160, to Amarillo 11/19/1942
36-161, to Amarillo 10/09/1942, possibly flightline "05"?
6b: B-17Bs: 39-003, to Amarillo 09/14/1943,
39-007, to Amarillo 07/16/1943,
38-584, to Hobbs 07/30/1943, to Class-26, 10/29/43
This represents the sum total of the information available as of 10:18PM EDT, April 9, 2009 about the aircraft used in the motion picture, "Air Force", at least to your humble (and humbled) researcher.
FURTHER Updates had been April 8, 2009/00:42 EDT (12:42AM)

I look forward to further updates and increases of our knowledge.

Sincerely,
Dan K.
This now represents the sum total of the information available as of 10:29AM EDT, April 1, 2009, about these aircraft.
Further, the number of "Plane-In-Group" Numbers on B-17B/C/D-fitted aircraft, equals the number of B-17B aircraft available at the time!
Do we just need to match S/Ns to Plane-In-Group numbers???
I wonder.....

[pokryshkin]

By the way, the highest Fiscal Year Appropriations 1940 US Army Air Corps Serial Number was Douglas A-20 40-3160. 40-5560 doesn't exist!
Now we know!

[pokryshkin]

By the way, Dan Johnson found another B-17B/C/D in a formation shot, and also on the flightline shot: "09"! This makes a total of at least TWELVE (12) aircraft seen in the film, and in use during filming!

Regards,
Dan K.

This aircraft can be seen below the takeoff shots of that YB-17 in "One more Air Force Question..."

[pokryshkin]

As a final comment, unless further evidence is forthcoming, I would tend to go with 39-007 as the alter ego of "05564" "10" "Mary-Ann" in the film Air Force.

Regards,
Dan K.

OOPS!!!! It turns out that 38-584 IS "10" "Mary-Ann"
"05564) in Air Force!

[Dan Johnson]

As a final comment, unless further evidence is forthcoming, I would tend to go with 39-007 as the alter ego of "05564" "10" "Mary-Ann" in the film Air Force.

Regards,
Dan K.

For what it's worth, after wading through the B17 scenes again, I think the only chance to get the info from the film is in the scene where the leading edge of the vertical tail is still white. I can't make it out, but it looks like 4 numbers on 10 and it looks fairly clear that the first number is an "8"

After that its the spurious serial number on Mary Ann

[pokryshkin]

WOW!!!!

This shoots down everything I had thought was so!

OK, have you any candidates in mind?

IF you can make out the second digit AFTER that first "8", it would give us enough to narrow it down considerably.

PLEASE don't give up now, when you, we, are so close to an answer!!!

Best of luck!!!

Dan K.

PS - IF You can make out the [/i]3rd digit, this would just about clinch it!
The candidates now are: 38-212, 38-259, 38-260,
38-269, and 38-270.
Their record cards might give us some evidence. My best off-the-top-of-my-head guess at this moment is 38-212, believe it or not! The photo in the Lowery "boneyard" means that this aircraft MIGHT have had its original serial repainted, and since the "10" had been overpainted, that's why there's no large plane-in-group number on the tail. IF you have a copy of Fortress in the Sky, perhaps you can double-check this.

Scott, if you're reading this, can you help???

Thanks again to all. and best of luck with this continuing investigation.
Regards,
Dan K.
38-262 removed 4/5/09/13:21EDT\dlk

[DryMartini]

"All right....all right. Leave me alone." - John Garfield

[pokryshkin]

Bless ye, Sir!!!
May your EVERY good wish come true, you and all who love you!!!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!

Gratefully,
Dan K.

PS - the insignia shows that 38-212 was in active service at least after the change from the June-September 1943 red border to the white bars on the USAAF insignia.

I STILL think this might be our best bet!!!
Please advise. I accept gratefully all advice, criticism, and suggestions!!!!

[C-47B]

The Mary Ann was apparently photographed by the AAF on 6 April 1943, according to two different books that I have. The two authors, Jeffery Ethell and Warren Bodie, are not known for publishing BS. I would guess that the photos published by these two well regarded authors are authentic.

Mary Ann can't be 38-262, which was destroyed in a fatal accident on April 2, 1943 at Sebring, Florida.

Dan and Dan, have you seen these photos of the Mary Ann that were shot on 6 April 1943?

TonyM.