1943 Movie "Air Force"

[aerovin2]

I see that the 1943 movie "Air Force" is being released on DVD on June 5, or at least it will then be available from Netflix. This should prove to be an interesting film to view on the HD of the DVD, at least if it was transferred from the film (vs. video).

I will probably add that film to the B-17 Movie page shortly afterwards, if by shortly we mean a month or two.

[hang the expense]

cool beans Scott.

[DryMartini]

Scott - your analysis of the possibility
of "Mary-Ann" being B-17B 38-583 is
great! One minor correction -
In the movie, the call numbers are:
05564
However, the 6 does look like an 8
in some views.

I just got the new DVD today, and
I'm looking for a good view of the tail
for ya.

[aerovin2]

Yep, I just finished watching it for the first time in a dozen years. Not a bad movie except maybe for the ending. It's actually a pretty good movie as far as plot and drama. Some attention to detail that is often missing in that era of aviation films.

Great shots of engine starts on the B-17. It's also interesting that it appears no effort was made to obscure or confuse the serial numbers of P-40s or P-39s in the film, as was apparently done for the B-17.

As far as the B-17 "Mary-Ann" identity, it is interesting that the navigator log shows the airplane as B-17D 40-5564. The air-to-air shorts, I think done by Paul Mantz, are quite gorgeous and is footage of pre-B-17Es you probably won't find anywhere else. I saw no other markings on the airplane that could help identify it except possibly some painted over cowling markings on the number three engine when its being buttoned up after the repair job at Clark Field. My theory on the tail serial may still have merit but Dik Shepherd pulled the record card on 38-583. It was in Florida shortly before the filming but had, according to the card, moved on by July-August 1942 when much of the film was shot.

I highly recommend this film and will do a review for the movie page in short order.

[DryMartini]

Scott,

There is a fleeting glimpse of the tail of B-17B 39-001
in the movie, when John Garfield is being talked to by
John Ridgely before boarding the plane.

Also, the 05564 number on the right side of the rudder
is very well applied, but the left side is very sloppy - lending
support to your theory - even if the plane's card says otherwise.

[DIK SHEPHERD]

Okay, just to confuse matters even more, this shot was taken from a studio still. And as can be seen, even though the aircraft has the number 10 on the tail, it has the number 18 on the nose. Or it could just be a reflection off the navigator's window.

What this usually means is that there was more than one aircraft used for the "MARY ANN". Or, that the real individual aircraft number of the B-17 used for the "MARY ANN" was aircraft 18.

I've found that the large individual aircraft numbers on the tail were indictive of what was done in training commands after the war started (for the US). The large individual aircraft numbers on the nose were used before the war and (seemly) only by those commands on the east coast. While large individual aircraft numbers were also used by those commands on the west coast, they were normally placed on the fuselage over the wings.

So, what seems to be going on in the movie was an attempt to make it seem like the markings were pre-war, when in reality the aircraft that flew to Hawaii that eventful day were not marked as such, at all.

[DryMartini]

Dik,

That is a cool picture - though it *MAY BE*
the third nose side window's reflection,
making it look like an 8. I'll see if I can
get a few stills off the DVD of the
pilot side nose.

[Guest]

Based on this thread, I asked for and received "Air Force" for Father's Day and, of course, immediately sat down (OK, I laid down) and watched it all. The transfer from the actual film to video is spectacularly clear and clean, making for excellent picture quality. The sound was also very good.

Truly enjoyed seeing one more WWII era film made "back in the day". To my untrained eye, the film makers seemed to at least "attempt" to keep the a/c looking authentic in the exterior scenes. I appreciate all your collective insights into the actual a/c and Dik's explanation of the codes.

The script and the acting are pretty much in keeping with the times and the plot should definitely not be taken literally. No real "stars" (ala Gable or Tracy), but you get to see three 2nd tier stars in various stages of their career:
Harry Carey (a/c crew chief), a long-time supporting actor in the last third of his career.
John Garfield (gunner), a sometime top star ("The Postman Always Rings Twice" with Lana Turner) in the middle of what once was a very promising career (HUAC and bad health prematurely ended it).
Gig Young (co-pilot) in the beginning of his career as a supporting actor.

Still, all in all, I love seeing the old birds during WWII.

Have not seen the "extra's" on the DVD yet - another time...

Thanks for starting this thread which encouraged me to do some homework into the film, which led to my asking, etc....

[DryMartini]

Book - FORTRESS IN THE SKY

"Other service B-17Bs became hard to identify as such. Some
had the top and bottom blisters deleted in service and others
adopted flush B-17C side gun ports. A few were even given
B-17C belly gun installations... ."

"In 1941, 19 B-17Bs were returned to the factory for modernization
and were redelivered between August 2 and 21."

[hang the expense]

Love that sceen of the bird.Great choice Dik.

[Guest]

FYI, as I mentioned in my very second post and my first post starting a new subject, if you watch the daylight flight line scenes where John Ridgely walks in front of a lflight line lineup of B-17B/C/D aircraft, starting with "18" in the foreground, then "05", then (I forget the rest of the numbers!) about 4 other B-17B/C/D aircraft, out to the bomb bay to talk with the crew, through a gap between the bomb bay door and the fuselage, you can just barely see the top of the fin/rudder of "18" and you can see "8269"!! So this means that "18" is actually 38-269! Would someone please double-check me on this? Remember, you have to pause it and then advance frame-by-frame to see this, but it IS THERE!!

[B-17B Serial Number Stude]

Another aircraft might be B-17D 40-3092 photo'd in 1944 in New Haven CT at harvard; the tail has "12" on it. Could this aircraft have also been stationed at Hendrix?

[C-47B]

Here is a partial list of the serial number for B-17B airplanes retrofitted to B-17C configuration (flat waist window; convential radio hatch; ventral blister delete):

38-211
38-213
38-216
38-219
38-221
38-258
38-259
38-269
38-583
39-001
39-006

There is photo evidence of these airplanes with the modifications. Nine of them were involved in minor accidents and the AAF Form No 14 Aircraft Accident Reports contain the photos. I can provide the information such as accident date and microfilm call numbers later if anyone is really interested. I just don't have time right now to dig up the citations.

C-47B Crewmember

[B-17B Serial Number Stude]

FYI, I have been trying to track "Mary Ann" down since first seeing the film at age 13 back in 1960, on either Channel 5, Channel 9, or Channel 11, back in Los Angeles, which is where I first learned there were other B-17 Variants than the "Bigass Bird"!

Clearly, the original serial was overpainted; I DO recall, with the view of the aircraft, as "landed at Clark Field, and taxi-ing along with the fence trailing from the tailwheel", and also in the scene where she starts taxi-ing away from the workstands, Japanese soldiers in pursuit, that the final "4" in the spurious serial seems a different paint quality than the preceding "6" next to it. Could the correct USAAC S/N be "9006" on the rudder of number "10" '05564'?

IF anybody has the record cards for 38-211, 28-258, 38-583, and 39-006, they MIGHT just be able to finally solve this mystery once and for all!
Please advise if you can do so!
Thanks again.

[B-17B S/N Student]

OR could the correct S/N be 38-258 or even 38-583???