A B-17 BY ANY OTHER NAME, PLEASE

[DIK SHEPHERD]

I don't know about anyone else (except those involved with the aircraft) but I just can't stand calling a B-17 after a rat, no matter what was painted on it during it's operational life. It just seems too much like an insult to a gallant warrior, and those men that flew them.

As I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, and some people's egos will be involved, I will go ahead and make a suggestion.

What if a list was drawn up with the names of as many combat B-17Es as can be found (including "THE DESERT RAT"), and let as many people as want to vote on a name.

Hopefully a better name can be given to this beautiful aircraft that pays a greater tribute to all the "E" models, those early warriors, and to those that flew in them.

[DryMartini]

Mike originally wanted to name it after "Naughty but Nice"

[Guest]

For what it's worth, I don't see any problem with the name Desert Rat. It gives me the impression of a tough old bird that can take the heat. Don't know where the Rat served, but if it was in North Africa or the Mediterranean the name sure fits. I think it's a lot better name than Enola Gay and I've never heard anyone bash that name.


Just my 2 cents.

[aerovin2]

It appears that it was named "Desert Rat" during it's stint as a trainer at Walla Walla, WA, or at Ainsworth, Nebraska.

[DIK SHEPHERD]

If this be true, then it's current name has no significance to it's operational life as the XC-108.

And since it will now be a full-fledged B-17E the name "DESERT RAT" will have no meaning or significance at all, to anything.

So, what better reason could there be than to give it a new name?

All I'm suggesting is an opinion poll where people can submit a name from a (perferably) real combat B-17E, i.e. "YANKEE DOODLE", "JARRING JENNY", "SUZY Q", "BLACK JACK". And there are many, many others.

And as this aircraft will probably be the only "E" model flying on any airshow circuit, what better way to teach the people about the early war period when the crews didn't have all the luxeries of the "Gs".

And aside from the cowardly "GUESTS" (mostly PC-WIXers) that will express their unwanted opinions against this idea, simply because it came from me, the suggestion wouldn't be binding in any way. It would just be a measure of how people, with the proper knowledge and desires, think.

And now, a little message about "GUESTS". Those first or second time visitors are always welcome, under the "GUEST" sign in, to express their opinions about any subject, but why not register your name so that we know who we're talking to? As for those PC-WIXers (the "COWARDLY GUESTS") who only use the sign in to rant and rave, why not be man, or woman, enough to let everyone know who you are. Unless of course you're a "shemale", in which case I too would want to hide my identity. And another thing, for those that aren't aware of it, the PC-WIX site doesn't allow anyone but registered participants to make comments. So everyone register here, please, and get on that memberlist, or (as far as I'm concerned) your opinions (no matter what they are) don't mean squat.

[OldBillB17F]

The name "Desert Rat" shouldn't look too bad if you keep the art simple and clean like the early 8th AF B-17E's. Try this for size:

[Guest]

And aside from the cowardly "GUESTS", mostly PC-WIXers, that will express their unwanted opinions against this idea, simply because it came from me, the suggestion wouldn't be binding in any way. It would just be a measure of how people, with the proper knowledge and desires, think.

You know DIK, you offered up your opinion about the name and I offered mine. Just because we don't agree you have to start name calling and flaming. I think you have a big chip on your shoulder that you need to get rid of.

I don't know you, have never met you, and don't care to meet you. I've seen people slam you on WIX and on this forum. Now I know why. You are a total a$$. I have never slammed anyone in this forum before and now you are the first. Congratulations.

I don't care to post my name in this or in most any other public forum for a very good reason. And it's none of your business why. You are not the only WWII aviation fan out there. And your opinion is no more important nor outweighs anyone else. So deflate your oversized ego.

And I'm done with you. I will now ignore you or anything else you have to say. I came here to read and share info about WWII aircraft, not be slammed by some egotistical dipsh@t like you. So take care and F.O.


Signed,
Guest and damn proud of it.

[DIK SHEPHERD]

Here's a representation of an example.



Here's another.

[hang the expense]

That is a good looking bird and a famous one. If I owned a B-17 and it was on the airshow circut the markings and nose art would be changed often because there are so many aircraft that are famous and are only remembered in photographs. Just think of the possibilities.

[Guest]

It depends on the interpretation. The 'Rats of Tobruk' were the Aussies and Brits along with some Indian and Polish troops who held Tobruk against the Afrika Corps who besieged the port for eight months in 1941.

They were given the name by Lord Haw Haw who said they were "Poor desert rats". An intended insult became a badge of honour.

Alot depends on interpretation.

Cheers,
Matt

[DIK SHEPHERD]

Yes Matt, that's true:

But the B-17 isn't British, Indian or Polish. And although the aircraft did do some time in North Africa the name wasn't on it during it's time there, as Scott stated.

[Guest]

Agreed. I am aware of the history of that particular Fort. I wasn't trying to link it to the Tobruk battles, I was giving a general example of a name that may seem inappropriate today but meant more back then.

I was just putting forward the general fact that terms that can seem derogatory now may have had an affectionate meaning or even a meaning that engendered pride.

Whatever it's called, it's great to see another Fort coming back to life.

Cheers,
Matt

[DIK SHEPHERD]

Hey there Matt:

It's not that the name "Desert Rat" is derogatory, it's that it isn't a name that many people would want to call a B-17.

Also, one thing about the name is that it does tend to lead to derogatory remarks such as "Rat's Ass", "Rat Hole", "Rat's Nest", etc.

Like I tried to get across in the beginning of this posting, it's only my opinion and if it were me, I'd find a more honorable name for this gallent warbird.

[jmkendall]

I spent a lot of my childhood with my Grandfather in Nevada. There a "Desert Rat" is a kinda curmudgenly character that manages to survive no matter what is thrown at it. And; one that always comes back.

Sounds a lot like the Fort.

Joe

[DIK SHEPHERD]

I lived and worked in Southern Louisiana for a few years. That doesn't mean I want to be called a "Coon Ass".