B-17 AIRFRAME CONDITION

[DIK SHEPHERD]

Here's a thought, I told you there'd be more:

What if a survey was done on all of the B-17s held by the Air Force, to determine the airframe that was in the worst condition.

After that, what if an offer was made to the Air Force to trade a fibreglass B-17, configured and painted in whichever way they desired, for the worst conditioned example that they hold. Thus, that aircraft could become the basis for the building of a B-17D aircraft.

Now, I know all of you are going to start telling me that the Air Force Museum would never agree to such a deal. However, since they did the same thing with the British for the B-24 out of Lackland, a tremendous amount of really bad press (national and local) could be directed towards them for treating the American public so poorly and the British public so favorably. Also, enlisting the help of a few National and State Congressional Representatives might aide the cause.

Who knows what can be accomplished if only it's tried.

I kind of think that it might be a toss up between the one at Tulure and the one at Eglin.

[DryMartini]

I've had similar thoughts, but never attempted contact.

[hang the expense]

Guys,as time advances a significant amount of new parts will be made.Sooner or later we will be able build the airframe from scratch(new).The problem with trading for an airframe with advanced corrosion is you will need to manufacture most of the parts anyway.I also doubt the A/F would trade anyway.JMO

[Ric Woods]

It may be worth a shot... but I imagine the cost (dollars or otherwise) would be fairly steep. To get the Liberator from Lackland, us Brits had to send a Mark V Spitfire your way....

Other similar trades have happened though. I believe part of the deal to secure the B-29 "Doc" was the gift to the Navy of a B-25?

It may be worth contactinng the group going to get the P-38's out of Greenland and see if they could dig up a set of E model wings and engines while they are out there.... or at least get a costing.


Ric

[DryMartini]

Ric,

That is a good thought about the B-17E wings under the ice,
but for two things that I can think of:

1) Cost
2) The B-17E used a thinner spar tube than the later models.
At one point, all the early B-17s were to have their wings
replaced due to fatigue and cracks.

Not insurmountable problems - and really having the 'E'
model cowls, mounts, and dishpans would be really nice.

If someone had a spare stack of cash to finance retrieving the
wings, that would be a step in the right direction.

[Ric Woods]

Bill,

The reason I thought about the E models in Greenland was due to the cost. It would probably cost less to get the wings with all the equipment up there, rather than organise a fresh expedition. Sort of adding to what is already being done. Obviously if it costs less to make a set from fresh then it's not worth doing

As for the spar tubes... does this mean that early wing spar tubes cannot be used any more?

Regards

Ric

[DryMartini]

Ric,

I've talked to Don Brooks about Greenland, and
it does not sound like a whole lot of fun. Now,
I'd love to get a set of wings from "Big Stoop",
but it does come down to cost. If it will be
$2 Million to do the recovery, it would probably
be cheaper to make a new set. I know the
B-17's fuselage was ground flat, but I never
asked about the wings. Hmmmm. I'll have to
adjust my interrogation technique.

As for the earlier spars - I just mentioned because
there was some sort of fatigue problem, since the AF
had to re-wing the earlier aircraft. I would *think*
that flying an early wing would
probably not be a big deal (no-brainer if the aircraft
was in the experimental category). Since the B-17s
in the "Limited" category are all Fs and Gs, there may be
a problem getting Mike's "E" model a Limited cert
(Let alone a "C"). Just another hurdle to jump.

[Chuck Giese]

Since the B-17s in the "Limited" category are all Fs and Gs, there may be a problem getting Mike's "E" model a Limited cert (Let alone a "C"). Just another hurdle to jump.

Bill,

I was reading through the B-25 News for January 2012 (a little late, but so is my response to this thread) and saw the following:

"The first limited certificate, LTC-1, was awarded to Transcontinental and Western Air (TWA) and applied to the B-17F and B-17G. TWA modified a surplus B-17G for international route development, and all subsequent B-17F and B-17Gs with the limited certificate have used the one owned by TWA."

So, if the LTC is limited to B-17F and B-17G, I think both the "C" model and the "E" model will end up in experimental. It may, indeed, take an act of Congress to get the LTC amended.

Chuck

[DryMartini]

So, if the LTC is limited to B-17F and B-17G, I think both the "C" model and the "E" model will end up in experimental. It may, indeed, take an act of Congress to get the LTC amended.

Chuck

Anyone have a congressman in their back pocket?

[Chuck Giese]

Might be easier to run yourself...