What would YOU do? (Rant warning)

[DryMartini]

---Let's get some discussion going - I need your ideas---

As you may know, having a B-17 undergoing
a rebuild can attract visitors. We like visitors.
We like to talk to them, and show them what
we are doing, and how we do it. It's fun to share.
Especially with the kids who ask all the great questions
about the plane and what it did during the war.

Well, to be frank, very little comes out of these visits.
Sure, we have a donation box by the door with a
suggested donation of (only) $5.00, but it is rare to find
anything in the box. That's just the way it goes, we
used to say.

Well, I was working one recent afternoon when a group of
5 gents walked in. I showed them around - they talked
of their airplane roots, and how they were in the area
and wanted to see the B-17. We had a good time. Two hours later,
they decide to leave, and I show them our T-Shirts, with the
donation box right in front of them. "How much for a shirt?" he
asks. "Well, the single sided one is only $15, and the double
sided one is $25. Would you like to see all the colors available?"
He replies. "No, that's too expensive. Maybe next time." And they
leave. No shirt. No $5. No nothing. And I just spent 2
freaking hours of my time with them.

Where the heck else in the US can you see a B-17 up close
like this (other than Urbana - Hi Dave!) ? What would
you think that is worth?

There was a time about 1 year ago when a group showed up unannounced at 8am on a Sunday morning? *THREE* hours later,
they left, leaving nothing but a "Thanks!" lingering in the air,
and air in the donation box.

Where is the common courtesy? How about a phone call
prior to showing up out of the blue? How about some
compensation for the time and effort?

Well, if we are to complete this thing in my lifetime, we need
to spend time WORKING, and not showing a bunch of visitors
around all day long.

Possible solutions:
- Build a fence around the whole property
- Charge admission up front

We'd hate to have to deny entrance to anyone, but it
is really getting out of hand. Time is too expensive anymore.

What would you do?
What do you think is workable and friendly for all?
Tell me - I'd really like to know.

[bluethunder28]

I guess I'm different. I always buy something or leave something. Hopefully they have big size shirts. The CAF in AZ used to just have a donation box but it was always empty so they started charging $5.

I once when thru Chevyland in NEB with my brother. The old guy charged us $5. After we finished going thru the barn/museum, he was sitting down in the front and we talked for a while. I asked him for a business card and when he gave to me, I gave him a $20. I asked what was that for and I just smiled and said thank you for a great time. Never seen an old man tear up before over a $20.

Bottom line is $5 isn't much and $15 for a shirt, well it would look great with my collection of signed tees.

[Guest]

just a suggestion or two : for groups that want to tour your site have them in on pre arranged visits only, with a time limit of say one hour. tell them this visit will cost xxx dollars and is strictly limited to one hour as you are running a working facility. i think that most would be receptive.

as far as one off, drop in visits, stop them all together. have one evening a week or a month for tours or show arounds. say a two hour open house, with a mandatory donation. this will allow you to schedule your time and not be interupted at times when you are busy and cant afford to stop what you are doing every few hours.

it sounds like you guys are getting into some serious work,and things are moving up a notch. what may have started as a hobby sounds like it is becoming a full time endeavour at a very professional level. treat yourselves as other warbird restorers and museums do. dont allow drop ins. you cant come to my shop and just walk around whenever you like.

i think that what you folks are doing is extremely admirable and must be full of all sorts of stress and responsibilities. it also is begining to sound like you are thinking that time is of the essence and the production must come first. treat yourselves as such. if anything , i would think that arranging set times for tours and charging a fee for doing so is well deserved and is certainly your right to do so. it may just elevate the demand for the public to come and see what you guys are doing.

dont be afraid to put your foot down on this. business is business. the same people who dont want to pay now probably arent going to want to pay for a ride later on either. keep up the good work and dont forget to give yourselves credit for what you are doing. in my eyes to see it happen is worth paying for.

groundpounder

[DryMartini]

What it comes down to is that we didn't want
to alienate anyone. We've always been (what I
would term) more than accommodating to everyone
who stops by. And you are correct - this is now
getting into some serious work, where time and
attention matter.

I pretty much know how we're gonna deal with
this, but wanted to hear suggestions to make sure
I wasn't off base.

Keep 'em coming!

And a big thanks to the Aerovintage community.

[Guest]

i really dont think that you would be alienating anyone by charging a moderate fee. if you were to pre book visits, then you would have a heads up as to who is coming by, and be able to make adjustments or exceptions to the fee on an individual basis.

you sound like you are very reluctant to exclude people from your facility, which in itself is very admirable. the best of intentions, however, dont help to get the job done any faster. you sound like you are a fair man, wanting to share your dream with others. that is again, very admirable. you, however, have invested your life into this project and if you feel the need to close the doors for a little while, then just do it. all the best!!!

[jmkendal]

I think all the suggestions are valid.

But; what about the guy or gal that came up there from California just to see your bird? Well, I think if they just spent a hundred dollars in fuel then asking for five more dollars is no big thing.

A month ago I was stationed in Georgia, and Tom had invited me to see his stuff. I just couldn't get around the Idea that I was going to be interupting work; so I never went.

Mostly because I used to own a GTO/Firebird restoration shop and people used to come in and talk "Pontiac" with me all the time. I really loved the conversations and being part of the community; but, at the end of the day my work suffered.

In fact do you have a web site to buy t-shirts? I would be interested.

Joe

[DryMartini]

Nothing that you can buy through the internet,
but I can post some picts, and you can PM me.
They are nice shirts, 5 color, single and double sided.
I even had a few Polos made up, for those
country club guys with some $$$ with which to buy shirts.

[gary1954]

Bill, I have to agree with Groundpounders suggestions.
When I read your first post, I thought to myself, "put the donation box out side the door to the shop. No donation, no entry.
You have a business there, keep a sign in roster for people to sign in, date and time, address, amount of donation.
If they want to see this real frickin' old B-17, they will pay for it.

I am the same as Joe on visitation as well.
Tom has invited me up to see what he is doing, his P-40 etc, but....will I cause a delay in his project he is currently engaged in, as delay cold cost him money.
I have known Tom Reilly personally for over 30 years, and he has invited me to his place in Douglas several times, and I am dieing to go over there, but, I don't want to get in the way, and Tom if you know anything about him, well...if you see him standing still or sitting down, you better take a picture because he is a busy man....
....Like you, he's got a business to run, and as you want to get this fabulous Bomber in the air in our life time, I would take serious consideration into Groundpounders suggestions.
Run it by your Staff. Just my opinion man, I would love to come up and see the bomber, but gas sown here hit 4 bucks P.G. so I will be delayed.
Pimp a donation tag on your website.
Talk to a boyscout group, the civil air patrol, for a fund raiser. Have bake sales.
Have a town hall meeting/Dinner with WWII Veterans and have a fundraiser, some eatery around there might be willing to cater.
Good luck man. See you when I can.

[DIK SHEPHERD]

I might suggest that you try to find a volunteer (a World War 2 vet from the area) to be the tour guide.

Teach him everything about the aircraft that you'd like to be presented to the public and, when there's no-one visiting, let him (or her) be a go-for.
Let him (or her) feel needed and helpful.

Just a thought.

[Guest]

great idea, dik ! nice way of putting it too!!

[gary1954]

Excellent Idea Dik How are you doing? Haven't seen you in a while.

[hang the expense]

You bet Dry Martini.If they want to see a B-17 they will pay for it.If they are just killing time at you guys place CHARGE EM.That will seperate the pepper from the flysh.. you get the idea.You guys are welcome at my place anytime and I wont charge you.LEOs always get the nickle tour.

[gary1954]

Fruck.....I'm a virgo

[hang the expense]

LOLOLOL,Gary, we can bend the rules for ya.Come on up.That goes for you JM as well.You need to see the tail gun in person.

[gary1954]

Thanks for the invite....I will shoot for running up there in about 3 weeks er so.