The way 42-32076 should look . . .

[Steve Birdsall]

The way 42-32076 would have, could have and should have looked . . . This is the seventh natural-metal B-17G from Seattle arriving at the 457th Bomb Group, where she became Don Lady's Lady Luck.



Duane L. Zemper took the photo.

[Chris Brame]

That's very interesting - Was the gray on the national insignia from the factory or a field mod?

As to the NM finish, now that we have all those new paints for simulating the look on model aircraft, could they be used on a full sized aircraft to even out the look of the aluminum without looking like silver paint? Of course I'm only talking about an aircraft that is on indoor museum display.

[Guest]

Many Thanks for this picture.
I don't believe I have seen that specific waist window enclosure before...looks almost like a "bay window" jutting out from side of the a/c.
Is that a mg sticking out of the back of the radio room? If so, I thought thy got rid of that before the "G".
Will appreciate any additional info.
John

[B-17Buddy]

Enclosed Radio room gun was standard for a little while on the G model; the radio room gun was deleted in later variants of the G model.

I just checked several of my reference books---Those type of waist gun enclosures can be found in most every book featuring B-17 airplanes. You might want to check out a book by Squadron Signal Publications titled : B-17 IN ACTION. This very inexpensive book touches on all the gun position changes (and other technical aspects) on the B-17 aircraft from 299 to B-17H.

Bud

[Steve Birdsall]

To quote from my own Squadron book, Fighting Colors: B-17 Flying Fortress . . .

". . . the canted three-piece enclosed waist gun windows [were] installed at modification centers. The center panel was flat and the sill-mounted gun was in a K-5 mount. This modification began appearing on some very late B-17Fs, early B-17Gs, and older aircraft being retrofitted as the opportunity arose. It quickly became universal on Boeing aircraft through the B-17G-45-BO, and on Vega aircraft through the B-17G-45-VE. It was fitted to Douglas B-17G-20-DLs prior to Douglas' use of their own design."

Lady Luck, like Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby, is a B-17G-35-BO.

[Guest]

Here's a close-up of the waist gun window on the same aircraft above from a different angle. Also taken by Duane Zemper after this aircraft arrived at Glatton.

-Eric Zemper

[gary1954]

Okay, Put on the brakes.... I am looking at this photo and it appears that the waist stations are directly across from each other. Wasn't there a thread where some folks were talking about the waist gun positions being staggered...Please splain.

[B-17Buddy]

Gary,

The explanation is very simple:

Not all B-17G airplanes had staggered waist gun stations.

Check out Roger Freeman's book: The B-17 Flying Fortress Story or the above-mentioned Squadron Signal Publication B-17 IN ACTION for the story on staggered waist windows. The early B-17G airplanes did not have staggered waist windows; there were a few late B-17F airplanes that did, such as B-17F # 42-30631, which has staggered waist guns and chin turret but has the old type tail turret and the old type top turret and no cheek guns.

There are several configurations of gun positions on B-17G airplanes; and some airplanes were retrofitted in the field or at Cheyenne, Wyoming, with updated equipment or configurations. There are several very good B-17 reference books out there that go into detail about these matters.

B-17Buddy.

[Steve Birdsall]

Douglas was the first to produce B-17s with staggered waist positions: The right waist window was moved forward three fuselage frames - about five feet - which gave the gunners ample room. The flush window which accompanied this change appeared on the B-17G-25-DL through B-17G-35-DL and was unique to the Long Beach B-17s. The sill-mounted gun projected through a rectangular cutout at the base of the glass, with a canvas boot to provide a weather seal.

Boeing, which had reworked the waist positions of a late B-17F, introduced staggered waist guns on their B-17G-50-BO, the first of which was accepted on February 28, 1944.

Vega, who had similarly experimented but with an early B-17G, did not introduce the modification until their B-17G-50-VE in June.

The Boeing and Vega aircraft all used the waist window that would be standard until the end of production: a flush window with the sill-mounted gun in a K-6 mount centered at the base of the window, projecting through a small cutout. Douglas switched over to this type of waist window with their B-17G-40-DLs in the early spring of 1944.