Movie Watch: "Air Force"

[DryMartini]

A friend talked to me the other day, and told me about
a thread on some other board, talking about which B-17
played "Mary-Ann" in the movie "Air Force". He said that
some thought the plane was a B-17B, and not a B-17C.

So I watch the movie, clicker in hand to stop the action
when a scene came up whereby I might be able to confirm
the model. Sure enough, look at the carb intake on #4 when
they are getting ready to escape from Manila as the enemy
advances. Weinburg is tightening the cowl as they push the
plane away. I see a B-17B intake. The C had a shorter, wider
intake.

I know the first B-17B was retrofitted with B-17C armament,
including the bath-tub. I wonder if that could be it!

[aerovin2]

Very interesting. I'm looking to borrow a copy of this movie and try and covert some stills to digital to use on a dedicated movie page for "Air Force." It would be great to come up with the identity of the airplane, so perhaps some research into what the few B-17Bs were doing during the period of the filming might help narrow it down a bit. This movie is not available on DVD at this point. The movie pages are coming together very slowly, but progress is being made.

[Steve S]

Check out one of the Jeff Ethell books.... I think it was Bomber Command. There's a color pic of Mary Ann and it just might list the serial number.

[DIK SHEPHERD]

I've searched all kinds of records, including the Aircraft Individual Record Cards, and there's no real indication as to which aircraft "MARY ANN" was.

And, although the first B-17B, s/n 38-211, was sent to Wright Field for evaluation and later modified into a "C" model configuration, I find no evidence that any other "B" model was ever so modified.

So, as far as I know and until someone can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt, I say the "MARY ANN" was a "C".

As far as which one, it will probably never be known. Unless, of course, some privately taken photos, taken at the time the movie was made, show up on eBay.

[aerovin2]

After looking at some stills, I'd have to agree that it was a "C". If you look at the nose glass it is definitely in the "C" configuration. To me, the oil cooler on the number 1 and 4 engines looks like a "C" also. The loop antenna is also in the "C" style, though that could have easily been updated. Bruce Orriss' When Hollywood Ruled the Skies also indicates it was a group of 10 Cs and Ds used in the film. It bears further investigation, no doubt.

[DryMartini]

For reference, look to Bowers "Fortress In The Sky".

Pg. 51 shows 2 B-17Bs with no waist blisters - only smooth skin.
Also note that they have RDF football antennas.

Pg. 57 shows a beautiful B-17C. Note the carb intake on
engine #1. The intake is 6 inches behind the edge of for cowl.

Pg. 64 at the top shows the first B-17B in B-17C armament.
Note the carb intake on #1, how it extends to the back edge
of the cowl.

Now, for the clincher:
Pg. 58. A nice color photo of a B-17C in olive drab paint, complete
with the nose gun sockets. But wait! Look at the carb intake on #1!
That is a B-17B intake. Now look at the cowl of #2 where the exhaust
stack leads back to the turbo. There is a notch in the cowl. Look at
the B-17B at the top of page 53. Number 3 cowl has the same notch.
Now, look at the B-17C (Fortress I) photo on pg. 66. You can clearly
see that #2's cowl has no notch. The caption, stating this is a B-17C,
is wrong! And this picture could indeed be "Mary-Ann", although the
propeller hubs are NM instead of what appeared to be black in the movie.

I was skeptical that Mary-Ann was a B-17B. But now I'm convinced.

Just look at the scene with George Tobias with #4's carb intake,
and the pictures noted above. The book's captions are not always
accurate, and seeing is believing. Look for yourself.

Scott, I can email you pictures if you care to post them for all to see.

[hang the expense]

hey gang,what about how the nacelles tuck under the cowling at the trailing edge of the cowling?Do the Cs have this? This looks like B wing stuff to me.I dont think they would have retro-fitted earlier wings on a later A/C.

[DIK SHEPHERD]

The "Swoose" has a "B" wing.

Cowling and engine carb intakes don't make it a "B".

When these particular aircraft was being used for training purposes I'm sure that whatever was available was used for spare parts. If the supply system had "B" model parts in the system, QECs for instance, and they could be used on "C" or "D" models. I'm sure they weren't going to throw them out just because there weren't any active "B" models.

[hang the expense]

You dont interchange fire walls. we arent talking about cowling, we are talking about the area behind the quick engine change unit

[DryMartini]

Are you SURE the Swoose has "B" wings?
From what I've read in a book about Swoose
was that it was re-winged with wings meant
for a "B" model. (The plane was in the Canal Zone
at the time, and there were "B"s there). Boeing would
not have made "B-model" wings in 1943
with B-17F/G production in full swing.

After 1943, early model B-17s that were still flying
were ordered to be re-winged due to issues with
fatigue in the spars. The blue prints show that
the B-17Fs and Gs had beefed up spars,
and I know the "Rat" had "G" model wings.
(It has Tokyo tanks!)

[hang the expense]

the swoose has G wings.All older planes were updated at some point with late wings during the war.Somewhere there is an AF order pertaining to this.

[Dan Johnson II]

First stop in to this forum. Saw this and figured I could at least scan the picture of Mary Ann from the Ethell book. Hope since it's for 'research' purposes only, I won't get in trouble

Love "Air Force".

[hang the expense]

thanks Dan, Im sure you have read the thread on this. on number 3 exhaust as it exits the cowling you can see that the cowling is scalloped out.I not sure but do the C models have this? If they dont I think this would make Mary Ann a B model that has been updated.I will check further and aybe someone else can as well.

[aerovin2]

By the way, you guys have convinced me...it's a B-17B with some B-17C upgrades to the fuselage.

Likely candidates from Freeman's listing, all at Hendrick Field at Sebring, Florida, in July 1942:

Possibly 38-211 (West Palm Beach after Sept. 1942)
38-258
38-262
38-269 (at Wright Field Jan 41 to Jun 42, possibly modified?)

Looking at Bower's book, it also appears that the photo on page 71, upper right, also shows a "B" with reworked armament. Very interesting.

[Dan Johnson]

I can't find my copy of the film, but I swear that you can see the serial on the tail on one of the in flight scenes, after the large tail number has been painted out. It's way up high towards the top of the tail instead of the usual spot.

Wonder if anyone can see it from there?